Sex, body image struggles, and Covid's impact on intimacy

Licensed therapist and sexologist Taylor Nolan has a lot of wisdom to share. In this episode we jump into all things love, body image, Covid, and passion. 

Get ready for answers to some of your sent-in questions, like: 

• Does your partner notice your cellulite during intimate moments?
• What can you do if you have a different libido to your partner?
• Is porn bad?
• And how can couples keep passion alive during stay-at-home Covid? 

For more info, pop on over to Taylor's page at instagram.com/taymocha. 

Transcript

Intro

From body image pressures to social media, like sometimes it can feel like the world is full of noise, and that's exactly why we've got to start talking out loud. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host Danae Mercer, health journalist and eating disorder survivor. I'm glad you're here.

Danae Mercer

Hi, guys, welcome back to Talking Out Loud, the podcast that's all about helping you find your voice. I'm your host Danae Mercer and we are joined with such an incredible guest today, Taylor Nolan, who's a licensed psychotherapist, sex therapist, and she's getting her PhD. And I want to say sexology, Taylor, but that's not the right word, is it? 

Taylor Nolan

That is the right word. Clinical sexology. 

Danae Mercer

Oh, there we go. See, that's just amazing. Well, Taylor thank you so much for joining us today. 

Taylor Nolan

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited about this. And I have to tell you, before we start, when I told my mom, you know, we're going through my schedule for the week and I was like, oh, yeah, like I'm going to go on her podcast. And my mom was losing it. And she was like, oh, my God, oh, my God, are you serious? She has just changed my life. She is really she's been such an influence on me and such a great way. I share her with all my friends. I love her content. I'm oh, my gosh, I can't believe you're going on her podcast.

Danae Mercer

Oh, well, thank you. That means a lot to me. Yeah, I know. Is I was like a little a little Midwest girl. Like what you talk about is really eye opening for me because we had abstinence only education in high school, which was basically don't have sex, don't have sex, don't have sex. And that's what I that's what I like. We didn't learn about STDs or safe sex or let alone intimacy. So, like, how did you get into your particular niche? It's just so fascinating. 

Taylor Nolan

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I would definitely say that I grew up for the most part, sex positive. There was definitely still some sex shaming in there. And certainly, the sex education I received in schooling was very, very poor. But I've always been interested in sex. I've always been intrigued by why people have sex, why they have sex, the way they have sex, how they figure out who they want to have sex with. All of that has always fascinated me. And I started off in psychology. So I got my bachelor's in psychology and I had a human sexuality course and it was my favorite class. And we like essentially would watch porn in the class. And I was like, this is so cool. We need to like talk about this stuff more. And I've always been someone that just wants to talk about uncomfortable things and wants to make other people feel uncomfortable. And my mom likes to joke that I came out of the womb talking and I think she actually might be spot on with that. I've always loved talking about things. And once I started practicing, I went on to get my master's in clinical mental health counseling. And I've been doing my private practice for about a year now or over a year. And I was starting to realize just how much more stigmatized sexual health is for mental health. You know, I would talk about mental health on social media and on my podcast, and everyone was like, really supportive of that. You know, it certainly has its has its stigma to it. But for the most part, it was really positive responses. But you start talking about sex education and people start really losing it. They get upset. They think you're a terrible person, they call you a slut, all these things. And I was like, wow, there's really a lot of work to do here. And a lot of the folks that actually practice our sex therapists or say they are sexologists don't actually have any, like, legitimate training in the field. It's not a very regulated field, which just like a whole other thing that's just been fascinating for me. But it was really important to me like to actually get training within this field because a lot of harm can be done. A lot of us are in a patriarchal society and have a very hetero normative view, and unknowingly those biases can kind of be put onto our clients and cause harm. So, you know, even marriage and family therapist, they get one course, Max, maybe in sexuality, which I think is really surprising for a lot of people. But yeah, I just found it to be even more stigmatized than mental health. You know, people lose their jobs for teaching comprehensive sex education. No one's losing their job for educating on depression. So, yeah, that's kind of how I got into it. And I just love it. It fills me with so much joy and I have so much passion to talk about sex and relationships. I think it's like the fun-est thing to talk about ever.

Danae Mercer

I, I love this. I mean, I'm in my thirties now and I feel like I spent a good twenty nine thirty years of my life never even exploring sexuality and sensuality and allowing myself to ask the questions that I mean, I put it out to my audience that you're coming on the podcast today and I like I with thousands of questions about sex, so it's overwhelming just how much people want to know about it, but no one's talking about it.

Taylor Nolan

Yeah, yeah. 

Danae Mercer

But on that note, I'd love to I'd love to start asking you some of the questions from the audience, such as a big one of this podcast is a big focus of the podcast, is helping women find their voice and feel confident and comfortable in their skin. And a question that came up again and again again is I don't feel comfortable in my skin. Does my partner notice does my partner notice my cellulite? Does he notice my saggy boobs or do they notice my body? I struggle with my body. It really turns me off. Like, what advice would you give to someone navigating that? 

Taylor Nolan

Mm hmm. Yeah. So first of all, I think you touch on a lot of this as well, but that all of those things are OK to begin with. None of those things are a bad thing, are something that you even necessarily need to change about yourself. A kind of to start off. B, I would definitely encourage you to kind of get in touch with your body in a way that feels pleasurable. So that might be, you know, practicing affirmations as you put lotion on that might be moving that practice to seeing those affirmations while you put lotion on in front of the mirror and seeing how that changes. That might be exploring some solo sex and masturbation and seen where you feel pleasure in your body so that then when you are doing partner and sex, you can communicate and you can positively reinforce your partner when they touch you in a certain area that that feels really good. I really like it when you touch me there, because often what ends up happening is we start kind of spectator in ourselves where we're kind of like looking at us, at ourselves from the outside. And then we're taking ourselves out of that moment. We're taking ourselves out of that pleasure, and now we're stuck up in our heads of are they noticing that? Like, I don't like the way that that looks. And really the focus is just pleasure. You're still deserving. You're still worthy of pleasure, regardless of how your body looks, no matter what your body looks like, you are a thousand percent deserving of pleasure and worthy of pleasure. I was to say one thing that I always really want to encourage for folks who have vulvas, vaginas and clitorises is something that I found to be incredibly empowering around my body, is that the clit is the only organ as far as we know, as far as the research, which still we need more of. But as far as we know, the clitoris is the only organ whose sole purpose in the human body that is pleasure. And that to me was like, wow, that's such a gift. You know, who cares if I'm Ashie, if I got wrinkles, if I got extra fat, like, who cares about any of that? I have an organ in my body that is specifically only for pleasure that we know of. What a gift! So, I always want to 

Danae Mercer

My mind is blown. I have. I've never thought of that. That's it. That's incredible. Like what. 

Taylor Nolan

Yeah, like that. Literally its whole purpose, as we know it is for pleasure. And you know, like your partner might be recognizing those things, you know, your partner might see your cellulite, but more often than not, like your partner isn't going to care because they want to experience pleasure and they want to be in the moment with you. You know, if this is a partner that loves you, if this is a partner that, you know, you have trust with and you have respect with in order to even be intimate with, I don't think that they care as much as you maybe think that they do. Hair comes up as a really big one. You know, if I if I have a lot of hair on my legs, if I have really dark hair, if my vulva isn’t waxed, if I have hair in my armpits, if it's a lot, you know, are they not going to want to have sex with me? Are they going to notice that? And you'd be hard pressed actually, to find, you know, from a hetero normative perspective, someone with a penis who is not going to want to penetrate the vulva or the vagina because you got hair in your armpits. And if that is their perspective, if that is where they're coming from. They're not someone that actually is worthy and deserving of that access to your body. You know, I've always kind of said, you know, if someone doesn't want to have sex with me because I have a giant scar on my back or for something that's on my body that I don't really have control of or that is natural to me, then no, I actually don't want to share my body with this person because that's not a safe place for me to be. And my role in life, my purpose here is not to please other people or to make myself uncomfortable in order to make others feel more comfortable with my being. That's not my responsibility and it's not yours either, especially when it comes to sex. 

Danae Mercer

Oh, my gosh. I'm over here just thinking I wish every young college female could hear these words because that is just so powerful. And what would you say? This is a really reoccurring question. I got sent in. If the partners have different levels of interest in sex, different sex drives, maybe one wants to go like a bunny and then the others has no interest at all. Like, how do you navigate that?

Taylor Nolan

Yeah. So first, a lot of communication. Right. So, I hope that you have a partner that you feel respect to you, that you respect, that you can have honest and open communication with. So first off, starting off with that communication of when are you feeling turned on? You know, is it in the morning is in afternoon? How frequently do you want to be engaging in pleasure? You know, how often does that come up for you? Right. So first, having those conversations to get really specific so that you're able to fully understand where your partners are and so that your partner is able to understand really where you're at. If there are differences there, guess what? That's pretty natural. It's very rare that people match up one hundred percent and always wanting to have sex at the same exact time at the same amount of times. So it does take a little bit of compromise there. And one thing I like to encourage folks on in this area, when you have mismatched sex drives or timing of wanting to engage in pleasure, is to remind you that, like, you still have a sexual relationship with your body that you are deserving of, that you are entitled to, that does not include your partner. So even if you are in a monogamous relationship, you still are allowed to explore solo sex. You still have every right to check in with your body and say, oh, I'm feeling really horny right now. Like, I just kind of want to get off and, you know, OK, my partner is really busy right now or, you know, we just did it, last night. So maybe they don't want to engage right now. But I just really feel like I need this moment for myself. You have every right to go in your bedroom, go in your bathroom, whatever you want to go, in your car and to pleasure yourself.  You have absolutely every right to do that. Another thing is kind of communicating what turns each other on. So, you might have a mismatched sex drives. You might have a different desire of frequency, but if you can better understand what turns your partner on, you can try to bring those things into the picture when maybe you're feeling in the mood, but you think maybe they're not. And even in that, right, communication, such a big thing. So, frequently what I hear is that one partner will try to initiate sex with the other person. Another person isn't in the mood and they'll just say, no, I don't know, not tonight. I'm tired, no thanks. And something I encourage folks to say and kind of practice having a response of is one that still is turning towards your partner. So you might not want to have penetrative sex, but you might be open to having a little make out session. You might feel like, OK, I can maybe, like, snuggle a little bit and that would feel good. But I don't really want to have oral sex. Like, I'll still want to be close to you. But, you know, going to penetrate sex isn't kind of where I'm at right now. And then that partner can kind of say, oh, OK, but they still get to kind of be close to you. Right? They still get to experience some level of intimacy. And you both get to kind of talk through what it is you're actually in the mood for and what feels comfortable for both of you. So that's something I kind of try to encourage folks to walk through, talking about what turns them on, talking about what they're actually specifically in the mood for so that they can still create some level of intimacy and not necessarily a kind of cold disconnect and rejection because ultimately, yes, it still will be a form of rejection, but if you can still turn towards your partner in a way that is affectionate and acknowledging that they want to be close to you, then I think that can kind of help maintain and keep some level of intimacy and connection. Do those make sense?

Danae Mercer

Yeah, this is I feel like I should be taking notes. This is fascinating and stuff that I have literally never heard before because we just don't talk about this. Yeah, this this brings me to another one. Like so many couples who have been together for a long time or right now, like maybe their long distance or they're in a marriage and they're just in the house together every single day and they find that sex drive just dying for both of them. Does that matter? And if it does, how do they repair it? 

Taylor Nolan

Mm hmm. Yeah. So, this is a huge thing. And this is also something that happens pretty naturally after the three, six months, sometimes to a year honeymoon phase that couples often experience. And this is something I would definitely encourage folks to check out Esther Parole's work. She has fantastic book, Mating in Captivity. And her second one is State of Affairs, which talks about infidelity, but a large part of where her research and experiences is in desire over long periods of monogamous relationships. And that's pretty natural for that desire to decrease. And one of the things that actually helps increase desire is mystery, right? Some kind of unknown. When you think about like when you first met your partner, there were all these things that you didn't know about them, right? All these experiences that you hadn't had with them. And that was really intriguing, and it was exciting. There was this kind of mystery element to who they were. And if you're in Covid in a monogamous relationship, living at home together, working at home together, sharing a small space, it's pretty reasonable that you might feel like your partner is now kind of your roommate and that desire is not really there because it feels like the same old, same old. It feels comfortable. It feels familiar. It's a little too similar. And so one thing that, again, I want to encourage is that you do still have your relationship with yourself, that you still can engage and solo sex solo and that can help increase your sex drive. So if you're taking your lunch break to masturbate later that night, you might come out looking at me like I'm kind of in the mood now because I was just all worked up a little earlier. And there's also kind of fun ways to include your partner in on that, right? Sometimes it is sex is really about creativity and expression and curiosity. So if you can have a conversation with your partner, if you can kind of maybe even not have a conversation, but surprise your partner and surprise yourself, that's one of the big reasons why people even end up having affairs in the first place, is because it's this new thing. It's exciting. They're surprising themselves. They are engaging in something that's kind of unknown and has this sense of mystery to it. This is something that Esther Paul talks about is like having a secret garden. And I used to be someone who one hundred percent was like, nope, my partner and I, we need to know everything about each other for full transparency and absolutely everything. And that kind of kills desire. We naturally gravitate towards things that are a little unknown to things that are novelty. So, finding ways to get creative and see your partner kind of a new again and that's going to look different for every couple. For someone that might be doing a role play, for someone else that might be, you know, the partner going out for a long walk and coming back and kind of going into to ravage them and just being, you know, in a different way than they've been in the past. And one thing that that all kind of share here is like a fun kind of potential exercise for this. If you're feeling like you're not super in the mood, if you're feeling like with your partner, it's the same old, same old, there's toys that you can get that are like good for long distance. But I like to also encourage folks to use them even when you're living with your partner so that you can go in and have your solo sex, you can go play with a vibrator or some kind of a toy. And like, send a text to your partner to invite them to kind of control the toy, and that can kind of help be like a fun, different way to start engaging in partner and sex, one that you already are turned on because you've been pleasuring yourself and then you're allowing your partner to come and join you. So that's one example. We bypass those toys. I don't know what this episode will come out or if the code will still be active or not, but Taylor20, will give you a discount on some of those toys, but yeah, it can it can be really hard when you're working at home, when you are constantly around your partner. It's OK to give yourself breaks from your partner. Like getting back in touch with your own individuality, I think can be really important in helping kind of re-spark this sense of desire and finding ways to have, you know, mystery. Maybe it's not changing in front of your partner. Maybe it's waiting to actually be naked with your partner when you actually want to kind of engage in some kind of sexy time. Right. So maybe you haven't seen each other's bodies in a while in a sexual way. Maybe it is doing some kind of slow touch massage or, you know, just kind of getting creative honestly 

Danae Mercer

This is incredible. I, I got I've got thousands of questions for you. Just. OK, so one that came up often was porn. And I think right now, especially with covered a lot of people at home and maybe seeing their partners using porn for the first time or realizing how often or if their partner doesn't want to engage in intimacy with them. But they go into the bathroom and they use porn, like what should they do?

Taylor Nolan

They should support their partner. And remember, this is like I feel like people hate when I respond this way because, like, it's not the answer you want to hear. People often feel really uncomfortable in that kind of situation and feel like there's something that they should do because what their partners doing seems wrong. And it's not. It's not wrong at all. Kind of like I've already said throughout this, you just as much as your partners still are entitled to having a relationship with your body that is sexual, that does not include your partner. So, one thing I would encourage you to do is to get curious about it. You know, not not wanting to approach your partner in a sex shaming way, then watching porn to masturbate is not problematic. Certainly, you might have questions about what kind of porn, you know, is this ethically sourced? Are the sex workers being paid fairly? All that is totally valid. But if it feels like it's bringing up a sense of betrayal for you, I would highly encourage you to really check in on that and to have a conversation with your partner about it after the fact. You know, I'm kind of expressing how, you know, you didn't realize that maybe that they masturbated like that or that they were as turned on as they are. You know, it's totally fair for you to kind of inquire, you know, would you want me to be involved? You know, like when you go masturbate, are you actually wanting to have partnered sex with me? But you think I'm not in the mood, so you go do it by yourself. You know, you can get curious and ask, you know, what kind of porn are you liking? You know, maybe you've watched a different kind of porn that you really like. Maybe that's something you can share together. You know, maybe it is asking, would you want to watch a sexy movie together? And I'm sure a lot of these questions continuously are feeling uncomfortable for listeners because, again, usually this feels like something that's kind of wrong or that they're like cheating on you, that it's a sense of betrayal. But if anything, I would encourage you to, like, get back in touch with your body and engage in your own form of solo sex as well. The one thing that I get a lot of questions on is how to improve sex drive. And the number one thing is always recommended of increasing your solo sex, of increasing your exploration and your pleasure with masturbation. No one's ever recommended masturbation as a way to not want to have more sex. So, you know, your partner engaging in masturbation, you engaging in your own form of masturbation, whether that's watching porn or listening to audio or looking at photos, you know, that's totally OK. I think for a lot of folks in this, I think is really important piece here. In monogamous relationships, the fidelity is not negotiated and it's assumed. So, you might be feeling triggered and you might feel like, well, why is why are they in the bathroom watching porn right now? Like, does that mean that they don't want to have sex with me? Like they're cheating on me? But if the two of you have never spoken about, you know, what constitutes as betrayal or what constitutes as cheating, then that's maybe a conversation you need to have while also remembering that you don't have the power nor the responsibility nor the place to regulate how your partner engages with their own body, that is theirs to navigate and to manage likewise for yourself. So I hope that makes sense. I know it's not an answer a lot of people like to hear, but, you know, you want to approach it in a very positive way and in a way that is supportive because your partner is just experiencing pleasure within their body. Maybe they were feeling really stressed out with work and that Covid and life and feeling like they just needed a release, that they just needed to experience pleasure and just release. And it's no different than if they were to go for a run because they needed to release this anxiety or were stressed. And, you know, likely you wouldn't feel upset or betrayed if your partner went for a run without you. So, it's totally OK that they masturbate and engage in sexual pleasure with themselves without you as well. 

Danae Mercer

I love the complete absence of shame here. It's you're saying it's you know, we're not putting the shame on we're trying to understand and grow and develop together. And that's really I think that's really powerful. Now Taylor, I'm conscious of your time. And I know all of us have so many more questions. Where can people find you? 

Taylor Nolan

Yeah. So the best place to find me is on Instagram @Taymocha. I am a and I always have to qualify this like people think it's Taymocha because I'm black and like brown and I'm like, no, that's is not why. My first cat, her name was Mochajoe and I'm like a full cat lady at my heart since I was like four years old. So I was like mashed our names together. And I was younger. I was like, we're Taymocha. But 

Danae Mercer

that's amazing. It's like a celebrity couple. But you and your cat. 

Taylor Nolan

I was like 18 years old. I was like, we are the same. We are one. But yeah, @Taymocha on Instagram is the best place to find me. I have links in my bio for my podcast called Let's Talk About It, which also has an Instagram @Let'stalkaboutit_podcast. I have links to all kinds of like awesome fun sex and anti-racism resources in my bio. Some of the vibrators that I spoke about are in there as well. So definitely recommend checking out my Instagram. That's the best place for everything. 

Danae Mercer

Perfect. And final final question. What is your favorite quote? 

Taylor Nolan

Mm mmm gosh. Oh, that's a good question. Um, I have a lot of favorite quotes, but I would say I don't actually know if this is a quote or not, but it's like a mantra that I have. And it is do not disservice yourself to make others comfortable. That is kind of it.

Danae Mercer

Beautiful and I think very, very relevant to the topic at hand. Well, things Taylor, so much for joining us and thanks everyone for tuning in. We will have another episode out next week. So remember to click, subscribe and I'll talk to you soon. Bye.